7 Ways To Fail When Outsourcing To The Philippines

Great post. You’re totally right. It’s a pipe dream to have someone appear out of no where that is already everything that we aren’t in internet marketing. These workers aren’t duct tape for a business. At least they just don’t come that way out of the box, but they have the potential to be autonomous, free thinking and working geniuses if we train them.

Another thing that I’ve come to grips with is that my Filipinos don’t become everything I’m not. Yes, they may have training I don’t (C++ or Ruby on Rails), but they are more likely to become exactly who I am at first and then develop their own talents. I’m responsible to train and develop them. So, naturally, they will be trained and developed to do the things that I’m good at, at least at first.

That was a difficult pill to swallow because I wanted someone to do all the crap I wasn’t good at initially. It took a while to notice that was the wrong way to go about doing it. Train them on your strengths and get them doing what you do well, and then help them branch off into your weak areas by feeding them good content and training from reputable sources.

Holla.

Let me add this one:

Don’t try to hire someone in the Philippines and expect them to deliver value like a US hire would. Won’t happen!

I know it is against your mantra – but it is true. You do need to manage them and invest of your on time in running your business, managing them, train them, review their work, etc.

It is not a ‘cheap’ lunch and your done kind of thing. On the flip side, do it right and you may benefit.

I have hired 3 workers with the help of your training on your website replacemyself, I work with each 1 directly for at least 3 days a week and it’s still teaching them.

1 thing that i noticed that has been good is that I give them training videos or ebooks that i own, then I tell them to give me a report on what they learned. This seems to work well and it gets the training down off their head.

Also i give them the expectation that I will want them to learn as much as possible for if i miss 1 week the work flow continues without a hitch and most importantly without me involved.

Dear John Jonas,

is it possible to buy only that part of your course, which covers only “how to hire workers”, but not the parts which are tutorials for the workers?

Great post John and totally correct. I’ve had a full-time person for most of this year, and she was (is) great, but there were many times I wondered why she would make simple mistakes when not directed exactly how to do something. You definitely need to be sure that you explain everything completely and exactly how you want it done. They don’t think like business people, so don’t expect them to.

hello John and Happy New Year. Another thing I would add is to ask your current team (the ones you really like ) for referrals. I find that friends of the current team looking for work are far better hires and more loyal. Your points up there made me laugh because I learned a few of them the hard way. Not #1, although that is funny and if you do have a worker who does that I want the complete case study . However, I did refine my blog build sheet and posting methods to a fairly good system over the course of 10 months from learning your outsourcing system. And John, you are right, it does take time. Like all other good longer term business foundations, you have to build upon the foundation of a good blueprint. Each person on your team has a specific task. The way I break it up, if this helps, is the following. I have a html/php guy who does blog framework (not content) he just duplicates about 7 wordpress themes with activated and configured plugins to my SEO specifciations. Then I have a video person. She creates base videos and spins them and distributes them and adds them to the blogs. Then I have an article writer who gets article written (notice I said “get’s article written, not writes them and then he spins them and posts them to a bunch of places and my blogs. Then I have a mini-site buider. She doesn’t need to know html and she fills in a form with my software and builds highly SEO optimized mini-sites (then my content guy knows how to attach those sites “as pages” to the blogs as part of his content job. I still do the adwords myself, but 60% of my blogs are top 4 rankings for competes up to several million on a few sites. Well there you have a 100,000 foot level summary. And I learned much of this from John.

Great post. I am not at the stage yet to hire someone. I have heard of some of the results. Aparently they will work for $3 per hour, but you have to make sure that you get the right person.

Great Post John! However, we usually give a task before we hire a worker. Its usually small and will only require an hour or so to do. This has weeded out several potential problems before we hired them. I task for a blog writer would be something like…write a 300 word blog on a vacation spot you visited. A graphic designer would be…Create three logo designs for xyz concept, only take an hour.

John-

Awesome post! You know I am a huge fan of outsourcing now that you have shown me the light. I’ve used your methods to build a brand new business from the ground up( and have failed a few times on the exact errors listed). My company wouldn’t be where it is today if I didn’t have 24/7 work being accomplished between my US and Philippines based teams.

Thanks for helping me overcome some of my fears and hiring woes.

Thanks
Herschy

@Filipino Vacation. I do the same, but I don’t expect them to work for free. I pay the expected starting rate, and whether it works out or not they get paid for their time. Additionally, I hire them on a 30 day “temp” status. After an initial project and a week of work you’ll know who the winners are and who needs to be weeded out.

-Herschy

LOL, hahaha….

you are completely on the dot! i think i did most of those things with the expected result.

it might help to train the employers and reshape our expectations, in a lot of cases.

thx to your post, i will try again…

This Disappering this they do is SO UNEXPECTED at first.

I had one programmer do it after like 3 emails.

And Another after 1 full month of work!
He didn’t ask for a pay or anything.
He just got stack, not able to do the small task that I given him and never contacted me.

I would have paid him had he asked and provided the results so far (he did some things up till then).
But nothing.
I emailed him a few times – no replay.
Poof, gone.

All was well described in the site by John, and he re emphsized it in a new faq.
I am supprised at the sudden updates now that I back for a secound shoot, not a programmer now, I got my self a content writter and he’s SUPPER.
I am training him a LOT with the exact way told my the site, using the provided training for them, and jing to put new content, that’s only for my business.

BTW. I did hire 2 guys, one replayed after I hired him only after like 4 days, asked if he’s still hired, had internet problems, and then he’s gone again. maybe for the holidays.
But belive me, you can’t understand any of this non logical behavir without the exact ittertion of it my John’s teaching.

Thanks a lot John!
If you would also like to try his risk free life changing program give it a shoot:
http://alturl.com/a9kp

4 hrs a week ? that’s gangsta

Who in the world is the idiot who wrote that email in #1 ??

Unbelievable.

Hey John,

Great post! I’m going to send my list over here to read this!

This covers many mistakes people make when first outsourcing, (though the person in email #1 is pretty extreme!)

Add this to one of your best posts!

Howard

Wow, the last example was hilarious. How does that person expect someone to write 20 articles and create a website with full content before he/she finally decides to hire them?

Simply crazy.

As stated before, I give small tasks that are unpaid before I hire. One funny example is the person told us they’ve been scammed before and they wouldn’t do our task. So I know there are filipino workers out there that will actually do these tasks without question.

John,
I have to laugh at some of the comments. I have one employee who I hired about 4 months ago. I pay her a wage that most would find excessive ($10.00 per hour),but she will do more work in one hour than most U.S workers are willing to do in three. Yes it took some time to get her trained to do things the way I wanted them done, but now I give her a task and she comes back with the project 99% completed. I don’t think she ever sleeps. It can be 3:00 am her time and she is communicating back and forth on what she is getting done. Pay your employees well, be willing to train them in the way you want things done, and keep a check on their work and you will have an employee who will go to the ends of the earth for you. Also be willing to ask them for their ideas.

Yep as a manager in real life at a large IT TLA multi-national I can tell you that even the best qualified and experienced people will always need a learning period before meeting the standard required. It’s natural.

Been meaning to ask the other members here about task sharing with members of their team. For example you may have a stable of graphic artists that do work for you and I have some bookmarkers and article writers. I need a logo and stationery done for a new project and am willing to task one of my guys to do 20 hours work for you …anyone interested in such an arrangement?

I think that email was exagerated to make a point

Still the expections can be a little high at first.

Now… for the test…. I think a small test is important to see how you can work together and communicate…

I sent a simple script to the webmasters that applied.

It takes about 10 minutes to install….
A MySql database…. Edit db.php… and point the browser to install.php

All the instructions are in the read me….

Some of the applicants want $1000 us and have not installed the script after asking questions for a week….

I would go broke pulling my hair out

Oh… he did reduce his expectation to $500 when I suggested $300

I would prefer to spend a month looking for the right employee than waisting a month with the wrong one.

My first experiance was with Agents Of Value.
That was not fun at all.

So… I am getting back on the horse …. I know I can develop some good workers as I develop my skills.

Hi John
I made the mistake of expecting one person to do what ever I needed done. Cant imagine why, nobody can do that.I have learned a lot about internet and people since I started. Anyway I have now broken task down into categories. I looks to me there are 4 or 5 specific categories of skill needed.This is how I have broken it down for my own sanity.
1. Site design-setting up and installing plugins-project
2. Writer -articles blog content,coment responses, emails.
q
3. Product management- ebook and freebe-project basis
3. Seo management- taking a system and ensuring linking
4. Videos and or audio development.Project basis
5. Identifying the market and managing the size and system and initial training is my job that I would not outsource. Maybe you would break that down even further. and I do think sometimes an outsourcer can do more than one category and I would want to be cross training,depending on the number of sites. I dont consider these fulltime jobs, depending on your size.

Hey there John – finally getting the suggestion you gave me at Jeff Mills’ event last year together – made a pile of $$ on a giveaway event with only 450 members in the door. And I’m finally learning how to work with my gal, after a year. Takes a bit to transition from employee to boss… and then to add a worker too!

Just about ready to add a second to do more of the SEO/research stuff — Yay!!

Yes, I know I did get lucky on my first hire.

I got someone really great who didn’t need much supervision.

How did I know I got lucky?

Because my next two hires were pretty much horrible.

I’ll be looking for a couple new assistants in 2010, and will keep this post in mind.

Thanks John!

Hey John,

About the trial task, my experience has been different. I have a trial task and a probationary period. Like they say, hire slow, fire fast. The good thing is that by hiring slow, I didn’t have to fire anyone at all… so far.

Of course, my trial tests are not major ones like what you mentioned in your post. For example, my last hire was a content writer. All I asked my applicants to do was to just rewrite 2 articles I gave them.

This process alone helped me to trim down my shortlisted applicants list. From this test task alone, I managed to find out which are the serious ones. The really serious ones got back to me within 8 hours! Some didn’t even bother to respond.

So you see, a test task was really helpful and useful to me.

I have found a few good people and one of them is currently acting as a project manager of a development team in Russia, so it can be done (but the process is also very defined).

Up until now however, I am still to find someone who can write me an ebook. I have tried (and paid) two people now and I still don’t have an ebook.

So if anyone knows a great writer with ebook exeprience (I can find alot of article writers), please contact me (use contact page on my site).

Great post, John!

I’m going to blog about it and point people over here to read it too.

A lot of people have trouble finding the right balance – either they want to outsource everything like some of the folks you mention (with no idea of what’s realistic or what it takes to be successful) or they can’t let go at all.

I really like the way you think!

Very True John,
You must hire for a specific skill. I think that even if you hire with the thought of training “everything”, you will likely still have trouble. This is simply because we are each different in our skills and abilities. One person may be a wiz at Graphics and maybe you can even teach them to be a good writer. But perhaps they don’t understand the technical stuff (html, php, etc) or perhaps they are a wiz with the code and not too bad with the graphics, but can’t write.
Just like any other people, that is what we are hiring, people, no one can do “everything” in your business.

Ah, John, I need to find someone from the Philipines to fly back and forth to the US on a daily basis. They must be able to cook, clean, do my laundry, as well as create 100 ebooks and 1 million forum posts, all within an eight hour day. Doing the chicken dance is optional – lol.

Wow, and people wonder why they get that “cricket” sound from their inbox, IM, or phone, when they make these ridiculous “all in one” task requests. Too funny…

Like you said – “Hire someone to do a specific task!”

Any relationship takes time to nuture. I don’t understand why people think that because someone is living in the Philipines that the same rules don’t apply.

Just sayin……..

Rant over….

Robert C – The Wholesale Products Guy

[...] Thought you would enjoy this funny post by John Jonas: 7 Ways to Fail When Outsourcing [...]

John,

It certainly does seem that some people are just plain dreamers. They want to have a business with employees (whether they are outsourced or not) and magically have them run the whole company for you in a matter of months! Voila – a 4-hour work week!

I’ve had many businesses over the past 30 years, one with 40 employees. Believe me, it takes WORK to train someone properly. If you don’t, you’ll just be repeating the same process over and over again.

As you suggest, start small and specific, and gradually add to their tasks until they are proficient at them. It will take even longer to find one to be a general manager.

Above all, don’t cheap out on paying them a decent wage. You get what you pay for. If you’re getting away with minimum wages and they’re still working for you, it’s only because they’re waiting until a higher-paying job comes along. Then you’ll be doing your training all over again.

In my experience, employees is the most important aspect of your business. They can be the most rewarding or the biggest headache.

Rainer

Lisa, great post, and I was intregued by the audio that John had posted. I am looking at the Peterson stuff and plan to do something with the ‘multiple blog’ strategy, and linking it to my online training business. The online training business consists of myriad niches, each of which I think could command a blog or mini site. I am also gradually moving toward the ‘ specialist’ strategy that you discribed. Hwoever, I am currently using a single firm in India which is using 2 of their people to do SEO, band I am getting more and more uncomfortable with this arrangement, as they are not completely part of MY team.

John D,

You could always go directly to the outsource yourself and pay the monthly, quarterly or annual fee for access. However, you wont have the resources and help from John Jonas and his partner Dan. Dan is active with replacemyself and is there to answer questions and help you master the outsource process.

To your success,

Richard

John Jonas,

Excellent post, greatly appreciated. For those that follow you and your site, you give valuable support for free. Thank you for your insight.

Richard

Reminds me of an email coming from a particular person which I would rather keep the details…

And here were the contents:

In order for me to understand your level of skill and determine a monthly rate for you, could you please email me:

1. Your CV/resume – if you have one, and let me have your age.
2. Something you have written that I can read – just to check your writing ability.
3. Your level of skill with Microsoft Office tools.
4. The nature of your level of IT technical skills (i.e. are you just IT literate and can work with office, or can you program, work as a Webmaster etc).
5. The extent of your Internet Marketing and Webdevelopment skills (SEO, Social networking, bookmarking etc, Blogging, Wordpress installation and configuring, HTML, Traffic Geyzer, Non-Linear Video Editing, Google Analytics, Website Conversion, Ecommerce Website Development e.g. osCommerce / Zen Cart, etc).

and i was like… oh ok…no it was more of WOH!!! so this person needs a webmaster/graphic artist/seo/article writer etc – an all around superhero… WOW!!! and I was thinking… supposing I can do all of these… will I get a VERY decent amount of offer? So, I sent an email back instead…

And here was my response to the mail…

“I have no problems with working 40hrs daily given the necessary tools and rate for the hours spent. Before I as well commit to this however, based on your email, I believe you need a person who can possibly do all the tasks around a website and its requirements… It may be however difficult for me to charge for VA services alone for all of the assigned tasks since charges would vary to the work requirements and different areas of work and it would be most difficult to shift from one area to another as this can hinder the website’s progress. SEO requirements alone can take a few months for getting it indexed, topping google pages, submissions and other requirements that it needs. The best that I can recommend you is to put no sacrifice in any leg work area and have several people be delegated to several work responsibilities or I may charge instead for all the work criteria and pull up a pool of people who can manage each specific area.

As for my VA services alone for optimizing and web 2.0 management I do have a separate charging to that. And as far as editing, writing and many other areas that I can work on with would be charged separately as well. The rest of the editing and programming requirements would also be charged separately based on their rates as one programmer and video editor charges for it.”

guess what… I never heard from that person at all… this didn’t happen once nor twice… this is just one of the few emails I get almost every week…

What is funny about all this? #1 reads like a condensed version of every make money blueprint I've ever bought. Create opt-in, forum posts, content, e-books, social marketing, blogs, graphics etc, etc, etc,. Welcome to internet marketing 101. Do everything and you'll make money. Guess what , I'm only one person too. But unless I outsource then I gotta do everything in #1 don't I? And that's just for starters.. HaHaHaHaHa

Great Post! I am a Filipino and I am also an "outsourced" SEO specialist of an American accounting business. We do love working with outsourcers because its a win win situation for both of us. We get paid high, they pay low. $500 is a lot for us..but fair for them. There is more behind the "monetary thingy"..we really love being appreciated, that is why we do tasks the way our boss expects us to do…more if possible.

Thanks for this article, I normally send the link out for job providers to read, it helps me get the point across without him/her getting offended or thinking that I am just a natural whiner. To be fair, most of these people are outsourcing for the first time and don't really know what to do. All they know is they need to hire someone to do much of the legwork for them, period. I've had clients who appreciates the extra help of teaching them and/or guiding them through the process.

[...] 7 Ways to Fail When Outsourcing in the Philippines – That’s the first blog post I read from Mr. John Jonas. Every time I read a mention of Philippines or Filipino (complements) from a big time, well known and respected internet marketer, it always make me feel proud to be pinoy. [...]

Just thought of Another great reason for Outsourcing to the Philippines…

for those who aren't Full Time marketers and still have a day job are able
to communicate with their Filipino team after work!

I was always frustrated with India because I had a small window of opportunity
to communicate live because of time zone differences. With the Philippines,
6pm for Me is 9am for them… Perfect!

#5 isn't 100% I hired a tested worker from replacemyself.com and got immediate results…

I had a bad experience with my first attempt at outsourcing via this method.

We went through the interview process and did not interview enough people, and made a hiring decision too quickly. The plan was to have a 60 day trial with the employee, with payments on the 1st and 15th of every month. We provided a lot of support, but our employee ended up being sick for the first week, and of course we kept with her through her illness.

She worked well for about 4 days after that, so we paid her a second installment of salary. It was another week before we heard from her again, despite a specific plan to chat every day. When we did hear from her, she told us she was ill again and had been in the hospital. So we agreed to keep at it with her – we wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. She said she was fine, and ready to work.

We had a specific day by day plan set out for the week, and then the next day she didn't chat. Nor the next day, or the day after…. we sent several reminder emails and attempted to communicate, but we had no luck…. We haven't heard from her again, and I'm sure we never will….

Our training system is good too – timesheet templates, daily meetings, clear targets, training modules, videos & more…. I know that isn't the problem.

It didn't work out at all – oh well, back to the drawing board and time to find a new candidate…. I don't really know how to feel about this experience so far… on one hand I feel scammed (not by replace myself, but the employee), on the other, I'm curious and feel badly… what if something bad happened to her…? Maybe she is very ill…?

I'll likely never know… We'll give it another shot soon…

I had a bad experience with my first attempt at outsourcing via this method.

We went through the interview process and did not interview enough people, and made a hiring decision too quickly. The plan was to have a 60 day trial with the employee, with payments on the 1st and 15th of every month. We provided a lot of support, but our employee ended up being sick for the first week, and of course we kept with her through her illness.

She worked well for about 4 days after that, so we paid her a second installment of salary. It was another week before we heard from her again, despite a specific plan to chat every day. When we did hear from her, she told us she was ill again and had been in the hospital. So we agreed to keep at it with her – we wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. She said she was fine, and ready to work.

We had a specific day by day plan set out for the week, and then the next day she didn't chat. Nor the next day, or the day after…. we sent several reminder emails and attempted to communicate, but we had no luck…. We haven't heard from her again, and I'm sure we never will….

Our training system is good too – timesheet templates, daily meetings, clear targets, training modules, videos & more…. I know that isn't the problem.

It didn't work out at all – oh well, back to the drawing board and time to find a new candidate…. I don't really know how to feel about this experience so far… on one hand I feel scammed (not by replace myself, but the employee), on the other, I'm curious and feel badly… what if something bad happened to her…? Maybe she is very ill…?

I'll likely never know… We'll give it another shot soon…

@John Deiss – Yes, that's the first month's module. You can cancel after the first month and not get any of the other training.
I don't have a different way of doing it.
John

hi,

I am about to hire my first php worker, and I am wondering about how, when i put him on job, i CAN BE PROTECTED OR TILL WHICH RATE I MUST RELY ON OUTSOURCED HONESTY, philippinian people,
since i dont want to loose all my impoirtant username and paswords, if he decide to steal it in the trial period?

thank you,

Klemen

Hi John, I think you are right on many posts, but not number 5.
In fact I was lucky, because I find a good article writer that sent me 5 articles in 3 days.
And all were able to pass Copyscape test.

Thanks for your post, and goodbye.
Alessandro Zamboni

Interesting, but I have to disagree with the expect results right away part, you have to have patience. Start off by starting a blog and don't put any ads on it, just talk about your passion and how much you like it, build up a following, then slowly add ads and maybe sell a ebook or something. Although, if you can do it the other way and it works, go for it I guess, but don't start off like a spammer. Gary V's book 'Crush it" is a good source, I just finished reading it myself.

when do a work as best as you can ,and then think about other things.

Hi John,
What if can I do if I do not know how to help them. I am not very Tecnical. I would have no idea how to help them with a technical issue.
Regards, DJC

Hello John,
Thank you for a wonderful post. It amazes me much you share and appreciate you helping out. The tips you covered here can seem so simple, yet, this happens so often and the people that do these things really do not understand when outsourcing does not go well and tend to blame the person doing the work instead of themselves. I appreciate the tips.
Wishing you success.
Kim

Ouch! I resemble those remarks!

Your blog is very good.The little boy is smiling so sweet,he is very happy.
Nice to meet you.

the collocation is very suitable for short small coat with the best short shorts OL of dress photograph. But the proportion is stretched, for example, the effect of the blue coat and dignified skirt photograph integral effect is better. Cultivate one's morality effect!

Hi John,

You could add a foundation failure point to hiring outsource individuals from the Philippines.

Point Zero for the Foundation for failing at Outsourcing to the Philippines:

0. Never, ever, ever hire anyone from the Philippines. Sit around and think about it. Read everything about it. Never join Replacemyself.com and just think long and hard and create a massive amount of dim thoughts about it. Just never do it. This is the foundation of all failures to Hire and Train anyone from the Philippines.

Anyway, thanks John.

-DK

Thank you for the great post!

I would add the mistake of believing the level of skills they place on their job posting (onlinejobs). This is especially true with English. I have found so many people who put show "advanced" in writing and speaking, and in my opinion can't communicate. Of course I'm not talking about grammatical errors, but just don't understand general questions.

I have started quizzing the people who respond back to my initial email to get more details about the skills they have listed. This gives me a better idea of their english as well as skills.

I think I am spoiled by my first hire. He understand english well and has been above average in most things I've asked him to do. Also, he is working at a very reasonable rate.

Great post. Just remember, you want your outsourcing people to help your business, not to take over the business. It's still your business, don't be lazy.

I've hired four people in the last 2 months, one disappeared, one i fired, two are still with me.

This is what I learned form you: I ask them to email me daily.
'Three things 1. What they did today 2. What problem they encountered 3. What I can do to make their job better.'
I was very clear, failing to do so might lead to dismissal.
This works like a charm.

God Bless

Raul

Hello,
Just to let you know I'm about to hire my first employee from the Philippines. I let my add run for a week and responded to all saying that I would be creating a shortlist. This is done and I'll be doing a Skype interview with the 5 successful candidates.
I'll be happy to let people know how I get on. I have worked by phone and email and Skype in the UK, when Managing multi-site businesses as an Area Manager, so I can imagine what will be needed to help get the results that I want.
With regard to one of the posts above about training your employee in the things that you know first? I can understand what was meant, but in my case I don't really know much and what I need is technical help, someone to do the things that I'm not so good at.
Having hired hundreds of people over the years, it is worth remembering that it is important to get your employee to buy into 'Your Goals' and be working towards them with you!
Good luck to all.
Regards
Aldo

Im a 20 year old Filipino and on my first day i was told that i will be working as a project manager… back then i was a newbie, not only on freelancing but all other web stuffs like seo. But my employer had such patient that he taught me all i needed to where i am today… Now im 21 and I can say that our team is well taken care of.. and I can do all things he wanted me to do…

Im still on my 4th month

Some employers have crazy expectations. But don't forget that Filipino workers are dedicated, honest, etc. just because they are Filipinos. I've hired three workers and have found one keeper. She's a jewel.

The others? One wouldn't follow directions at all. I'd ask him to right an article on X and give him ideas and resources. He was terrific at writing…but he'd write on something totally different. Something worthless to me. Gave him extra chances. Didn't help. I think he was working for at least two employers and wasn't giving much attention to me.

Another was a great website guy. Wasn't getting much done (I require Daily Emails). So i did an Google search for his name…and found he was freelancing and using one of my sites in his portfolio.

The one who is with me had only done data entry prior to starting with me less than 3 months ago. Now she builds websites and does all the work related to them. She's also learning other skills. Having her is such a huge help.